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Permalink Reply by Richard Arblaster on September 4, 2008 at 11:07am

It is an unfortunate situation.

What it is down to is the potential employer's ignorance that brain dumping is going on, there are still too many employers out there that will hire someone purely on the basis that they have a cert and not really investigate a potential recruit deeply enough before offering a contract.

For me trying to get into IT on a full time and permanent basis, I feel that certifications are still worth it. I'll have the fuzzy feeling inside that I went the proper way around it and didn't cheat the system and potentially blow any chance of an IT career if discovered.

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Permalink Reply by Mark R on September 4, 2008 at 12:00pm

Sadly,
Employers are fully aware of brain dumps.
I have have had previous employers hand me brain dumps and just ask me to get past the test so that they can have x number of whatever cert they want or need in house.
All H1B's should be re-tested in US test centers for certs to be valid here in the US!
All certs gained overseas should be re-tested if you want to use them in the US!

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Permalink Reply by Diane Landsman on September 14, 2008 at 5:09pm

Mark,

You study for the same reason you do anything that is worthwhile -- because it offers you some kind of value. The paybacks for studying and learning and earning certification are knowledge and proficiency, not to mention legitimate credentials that will stand you in good stead in the workplace/job market.

Buying certification is just short changing yourself.

Diane

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Permalink Reply by Mark R on September 17, 2008 at 9:41am

Diane,

Sure. I study to learn and get ahead.
But, the certifications themselves are devalued by the "hired guns" and brain dumps.
Certifications just don't count for much of anything anymore and all too often, they are seen as just paper because of all the cheaters.
Certifications like MCSE are demanded for help desk and CCIE is an entrance to networking.
I find that it's because all the H1B's have them yet somehow don't seem to be able to work on anything. You think they paid a service to get them a piece of paper?
I sire do.

I don't use brain dumps, but often, I feel like the only one who doesn't.

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Permalink Reply by Derrick on July 6, 2009 at 7:34am

I disagree Mark. Brain dumps have been around for a long time, and certification is still around and valid. I've heard a some people give the same viewpoint you discussed. I personally am offended when I hear that because I don't see these people who brain dump. I've seen many people, including myself, who buy hundreds of dollars buying study guides and spending months studying for their exams, and thousands for courses.

I don't deny that brain dumps exist, just as much as test taking sites exist. I however disagree with saying that they are devalued or worthless. I just received a job offer because I was able to show an employee of an IT dept. that I knew what I was talking about it, and I cared about it.

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Permalink Reply by Mark R on July 6, 2009 at 8:59am

Sorry Derrick,

But with almost 20 years in the IT industry, I've seen WAY TOO MUCH cert fraud.
The single worst are the H1B's.
I've had MCSE's ask me how to find the IP address on a server.
You aske one to do a very simple task like a password reset, he has to call in 4 of his co-workers and it still takes an hour.

Show me how these certs are valid when you can order them from India with a credit card?

I don't know how you don't see people with fraudulent certs.

I've spent many thousands on education, I currently owe 18 grand for my training. Guess what? No job.
I have 13 certs.

Certs are now worthless because 1. You can order one via the internet 2. Brain Dumps are on ever P2P site out there. 3. I have yet to meet an H1B who has a valid cert, not bought by a hired gun or braindumped. 4. Corporate America couldn't care less about your cert except as a way to disqualify you from a job. They know how much cheating is going on.
They do it to.

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Permalink Reply by Derrick on July 6, 2009 at 7:13pm

wow. I am genuinely surprised to hear this. I have to wonder how they got their job without someone asking them a question related to the job they were applying for. However, while doing job searches, I am still seeing certification requirements.

I still do believe that certs have a value. Maybe not for the corporate sector, but I have taken training courses for my A+ and Net+ certs. And I learned a lot. One course I took at a community college, one later at a training course, both game me hands on training that improved my understanding of the material.

They may be too fraudulent in today's society, but I worked hard for mine, and I will continue to do so, and i will be proud of every cert I earn, because I will earn them.

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Permalink Reply by Mark R on July 7, 2009 at 4:18pm

The simple answer is, they work for slave wages.
Corporate America doesn't care as long as you're breathing and will to work for less then minimum wages.
Go to the GM Warren Tech Center in Warren Michigan.
They now have indian only buildings. They work them like dogs, house them in shifts in an apt. Pay them next to nothing.

They have the certs, you can get them for a few hundred bucks.
They have a few books, a "tech lead" and all their co-workers to rely on.

A+ and Net+ are good to have. I actually wrote questions for the Security+. I raised the questions of the brain dumps, hired guns and other cheats. Comptia doesn't care.

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